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Theft-deterrent Device?

Post questions and answers about your engine problems.. What is this ticking sound I hear while starting? Engine not turning over? Problems with your battery... alternator? Find out here.

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WickedKlownz
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:14 pm
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Okay...my 93 camaro isn't starting again. Im kinda stuck now, cuz I believe I know wut the problem is, but I don't know how to fix it. Don't have a lot of money to do this, but I need my car. Is there anyway anyone can give me ideas. Like wiring diagrams, tools, how to take apart crap.
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:19 pm
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What exactly does it do when it doesnt start?
Does the security light stay lit when you turn on the key?
Turn the key and nothing?? or does it try to start..

If you turn the key and nothing happens it is either your ignition switch or the key cylinder for your ignition reads the ohms value of the chip on your key..
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:37 pm
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Well see the thing is that it did this to me once before. The first time it did it the security like was blinking when I tried to start it. Like it had a dead battery sorta. Everything worked internally, but nothing when I turned the key. Had it towed to an in-laws cousins hows who is a mechanic and they supposively fixed it. (Obviously not). After that the security light has been on. It start the not starting thing after a while, but if I just let it set a little while it would. But now it has been 4 days, don't think shes gonna start again until I get her fixed. Like I said, I pretty much know wut the problem is, but I don't have the money to take it to a mechanic or electrician. Thats y I need to see wut kind of help I can get from here.
I tried a locksmith today and they were no help wut so ever.
The guy that "fixed" it the first time said that the sensor was reading the chip in my key...or something to that effect.
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:00 pm
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If the security light is still lit then he didnt fix your problem

There is a copper strip in the ignition cylinder that reads the resistance of chip on your key, there is 2 tiny wires that come out of your ignition cylinder for that anti theft those wires wear and pull apart because they twist with the ignition cylinder every time you turn the key it pulls on the 2 wires..

You need a new ignition key cylinder, that will come with 2 master key patterns where you will have to take them to a Chevy dealer with your Vin# and old key so that they can look up what your chip is and cut you new keys with the correct chip

To access all of that you have to pull your air bag and clock spring assembly, remove the steering wheel with a puller, then you have to remove the lock plate on the steering with a lock plate remover..
Then remove the blinker switch assembly to gain access to your ignition cylinder..
Its not a hard job to do but you need the right tools to do it..
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:14 pm
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ya...I realize that he didn't fix the problem and I am rather upset about it. Not only did he NOT fix the problem, but he scratched my car somehow as well...and not just little ones either. I didn't throw a fit for the fact of family thing and my car needs a paint job anyway. still morally it was wrong!
so I I have to have a puller to get the steering wheel off...and a lock plate remover? I don't have either and don't know where I can get them.
So it's the ignition cylinder...that costs about $36, already priced it. and then I take the VIN & old key to the dealer with the two new keys?
I think I can handle all this, but need to find those two items first. Right now I have only about $100-$120 to use on this project. Do u happen to know if the auto parts store will have either to loan?
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:33 pm
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I know napa, autozone and advance auto sell the puller and lock plate remover installer..

The lock plate installer/remover will look like this. You can find cheaper priced versions they will all look like this.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp ... e&tool=all

Then you would need either a steering puller, or even a harmonic balancer puller which is what I use
whether you get the steering puller kit or balancer puller kit they both come with the right bolts to use..
Some of the steering puller kits even come with the lock plate remover/installer in the kit if you look around..
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:38 pm
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I wonder if I can find a mechanic that has one I can borrow...really don't have that kind of money for something I'm only gonna use once.
Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. Maybe I can get this all done tomorrow so my cars back up.
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:14 pm
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I think autozone and advance auto does loaner tools with a deposit..

the cheaper versions for the plate remover probably cost you $20 and the balancer or steering puller would be another $20-30..

That is if you get lucky and find some one with an ignition cylinder in stock though it shouldnt be to rare cuz most gm vehicles use the same cylinder..

You would also need a right angle pick to get remove the lock ring from the plate once it is pressed down..
And a pair of snap ring pliers because you have to remove a snap ring on the clock spring for the air bag..
torx bits with a 1/4" ratchet to remove the air bag.
21mm socket for the steering wheel..
And a few other metric sockets to remove the knee bolster under the dash and ect.. because you will have to chase the old anti theft wiring down the column to un hook it befor you pull it out and then run the new wiring back down the steering column

If you actually get the stuff I can type a more detailed directions along with a few pictures because I always take a few while doing stuff like that especially the orientation of the clock spring for the air bag has to go back exactly how it was when you removed it..
If not I am not going to waste my time typing and uploading crap for it..
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:29 pm
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Ok...I will look into the loaner tool thing. Autozone has the ignition cylinder in stock, and so does O'Reilly. Not worried about the part. more worried about putting the new one in properly. I have already taken the air bag off and dis connected it from the steering wheel. I was initially going to change the ignition cylinder but someone told me that the same thing happened to their Camaro and they called this locksmith, which is the one I contacted today, but he was no help.
The only tools I don't have are the puller and plate remover I believe....I might need the right angle pick as well...will have to check for sure.
I would really appreciate u giving more detailed instructions and the images would probably help as well. Is it easier to email them or just upload them here? either way is fine for me.
I am going to get my car fixed, it is my only transportation and I need to be able to get back and forth to my job and other appointments!
Also could u send me a link for a pic or the steering puller....the one u sent me already was the lock plate remover right...
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:21 pm
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1st Make sure you have your steering wheel locked with the front wheels straight and your key is in the ignition in the off postion..
Pull your air bag fuse, and disconnect your battery.. which I am assuming you hopefully did prior to already remvoing your air bag..
If you unplugged your air bag and got that out of the way make sure you lay it facing upwards..

Make sure you have already removed the knee bolster and kick panel below the steering wheel some phillps screws and I think 8mm bolts..
You get all of that removed you will see the wiring harness comming out of the steering column..

If you tilt your wheel all the way up and look up at the middle bottom of the steering wheel you will see a black plastic wire shield going into the steering wheel column and down into the wiring push in on the sides of that and pull it down wards and out away from the steering column..
That will make it easier to pull your old anti theft wiring on the ignition key cylinder out and for reinstall..

Keep track of everything while your are pulling it apart there is a few spring and dowel rods, ect. that might fall out of the parts you are removing..

Since you have your air bag out remove the 21mm bolt from the steering wheel..
You will have to pull out the rod a the end of the horn wires that goes down for the horn..
Then use your puller to pull the steering wheel off..

Once removed you will be looking at the air bag clock spring and SIR assembly like this picture below.
Take a picture of it or mark its orientation so that you are able to reinstall it in the same exact position as you removed it very important..
Image

If you push down on that gently you will see a snap ring locked around the steering wheel bolt holding that on..
Remove it and it will pull right out..

Once you have that out you will be looking at this Shaft lock shield..
Image

Thread the lock plate remover on to the steering wheel bolt then crank it so it pushes down on the shaft lock shield keep pushing it down until you see another lock ring on the steering wheel bolt..
Remove that lock ring, it isnt a snap ring so you will have to use a pick, flat head screw driver or what ever you can to slightly pry on it to open it up so that it will come off..
once you have the lock ring off you can pull out the shaft lock shield, turn signal cam and spring will all pull right out..

No more pictures left because I can remember the rest when I do it..

Now that you have that out you will be looking at the blinker arm, turn signal switch, cam assembly..

Phillip screw on the left is for the turn signal arm you will have to take the screw out and pull the blinker arm out..
Then the 3 hex screws for the turn signal switch, One will be right below the turn signal arm screw, the other will be at the very bottom, and the 3rd will be over by the ignition cylinder that one might be a little hassle..
Before you pull that out make sure you keep track of the placement of the springs, clips and key chime board that stuff sometimes comes off or moves to a different position..

Once that is out you will see the hex screw holding the ignition cylinder in be careful with the key buzzer switch assembly you will see the plastic piece partially blocking the hex screw holding the ignition cylinder.
When you loosen the hex screw it will push out with the screw..
Also take notice how the brass strips are because they will move with the plastic retainer..
And it is very important they be realigned the same way before you put it back together..

Undo that, trace the 2 wires from the cylinder down the column and underneath the dash and unplug it so that you can pull it out ..

Thats basically it, common sense should provide you with the rest..

The only other pointers I can think of is it is a pain to run the ignition cylinder wires back down the column properly.
I used a straightened out clothes hanger and taped the plug and wires to it then gently pushed it down to the bottom of the column..

Also take care with the amount of slack you leave for the ignition cylinder wiring
Make sure that you have enough slack for the wire to twist and move with the cylinder when you turn it..
I even went a step higher and lubed the wires and cylinder with dielectrc grease to prevent any friction so that the wire can slide around easier..

If you remember the how everything was positioned when you took it apart you should be ok..

Here is an exploded diagram too..
Image
Last edited by ins0mnia24 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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camarosource
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:27 pm
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I don't think you will find any mechanic allowing the use of expensive tools. Many mechanics pay for their tools and of course would be paying for a replacement if they were damaged.

Least with the loan-a-tool programs you usually pay for the tool and then are refunded once returned in the same condition otherwise you pay for it.
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:06 pm
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Thanks guys...I got it done. All I have to do now is get keys made. Will do that in the morning when I return the tools to autozone. There was a wire that wasn't connected to the old cylinder. So I believe it is ready to go. After I get her up and going I will have to see if I fixed the whole "heating" up part.
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:33 am
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Well how did you make out dude??

Was either of the 2 wires coming out of the cylinder disconnected when you took it apart?
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:10 am
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Well I finally got the dealership to cut the key properly, but the car still doesn't start. I'm stuck now. Don't know Wut to do! And yes one of the wires were disconnected.
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:16 am
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Did the security light go away?
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:36 pm
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Nope. Running out of options & money. They dealership wants me to bring it in for a diagnostic, but I would have to tow it for one & for two I don't have $100 for it. I live atleast 15 miles from the dealershjip if not more.
~WickedKlownz~
 

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camarosource
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:43 pm
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Aw man. And the cost of a diagnostic at a dealer is not cheap!
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 pm
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@ camarosource: ya the told me $99.95. Plus I would have to tow it. Taking to the dealership is probably the best thing, just don't have the money!!!
Is there anywhere else...like auto zone or something?
And thanks for all ur guys input!
~WickedKlownz~
 

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ins0mnia24
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:50 pm
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The symptoms you described in your problem post " sorry just read it" and this one sounds like you were having 2 problems intermediately with your Vats and ignition switch..

Try this.. And see if you get either a code 42 = Ignition control circuit or still a 46 = Pass key/VATS
Try it once see if you get either or both of the codes..
The 46 might be left over from your ignition key problem..
If you get both pull the fuse for your ecm and disconnect the battery for a little while then put the fuse back in and hook up the battery and try to start your car a couple times again..
Then recheck for a code and see if either or both pop up again..
If a 42 pops up again then it is probably your ignition switch at the bottom of the steering column Item # 64 in the steering diagram I posted above..

Follow the directions in this picture
Image


Now if you did not get anymore code 42 or even a 42 if it is the ignition switch you can confirm it is not working if you have access to a Multimeter by unplugging your ignition coil under the hood on the harness side coming from the dash..
And turning the key on and see if the coil is getting any power.. No power means it is the ignition switch..
But you want to make sure and only do it when the car is not starting like it is right now..

After you changing the the ignition cylinder with the steering diagram above it should be self explanatory..

You can rule out the fuel pump by turning your Key on and listening to the back of the car you can always hear the fuel pumps on these cars turning on and priming the fuel system with pressure, if you dont hear it check the fuses..
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WickedKlownz
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:24 pm
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Ok....so I have to get one of those lil hand held things that plugs into the thing under the dash, like the do at autozone. (Sorry not sure Wut the are called!) Is the diagram supposed to be only 1/2? I'm almost positive its the VATS!
I have had many problems with this car, but I refuse to sell it!
~WickedKlownz~
 

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